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 Post subject: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:51 pm 
SLi O.G.
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This is happening on my 99 Subaru Legacy GT. Rear running tail lights are out, and dimmer wont shut off.. even with key out!

Okay, here are the symptoms I'm seeing.. and all of this seemed to have happened at once:

-Rear Running Tail lights are not working.. both sides are out. I checked the bulbs.. both are good.
-Rear Brake lights work
-Hazards / turn signals work
-Reverse lights work.

Another thing I noticed once i got home is.. i turned the car off.. took the key out.. and my cd player was still lit up! The dimmer switch seems to be STAYING ON? WTF! So i turned it off manually by turning the knob on the steering column.

Anyone have any clue whats going on? Which fuse controls the rear tail lights? How might this be related to the dimmer not shutting off?

WEIRD. I need help since I need to drive this car around asap and need tail lights / dimmer not staying on!


Thanks!


Last edited by d1giPhux on Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.


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 Post subject: Re: weird electrical problem.. NEED HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:16 am 
SLi O.G.
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After a little investigation.. the following fuse seems to keep popping:

10A : TAIL CLEARANCE.

Anyone have any clue why this might be popping? The only thing I have installed as of lately in terms of electrical shit would be the heated mirrors. They are wired to the rear defrost however.

I tried to put 3 10A, and 1 15A fuse in this 'TAIL CLEARANCE' slot in the fuse box kick panel.. no such luck.. just blew the fuse every time the car came on.. dammit.. this sucks!



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 Post subject: Re: weird electrical problem.. NEED HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:44 am 
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d1giPhux wrote:
After a little investigation.. the following fuse seems to keep popping:

10A : TAIL CLEARANCE.

Anyone have any clue why this might be popping? The only thing I have installed as of lately in terms of electrical shit would be the heated mirrors. They are wired to the rear defrost however.

I tried to put 3 10A, and 1 15A fuse in this 'TAIL CLEARANCE' slot in the fuse box kick panel.. no such luck.. just blew the fuse every time the car came on.. dammit.. this sucks!


You defiantly have a short on that circuit if it pops a fresh fuse every time.
All you can really do is trace the harness back and look for shorts.

Check out the last PDF in 6-3 Wiring Diagram section of the 99 FSM. That will give you a routing diagram for the wiring so you can trace it back.

Good luck, wiring gremlins are the worst.

Greg


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 Post subject: Re: weird electrical problem.. NEED HELP!..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:32 am 
SLi O.G.
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Wow.. this friggin sucks. I hate electrical bullshit.. and this is important. What could have caused it to short out? Any clues? :smt013

Where do the rear tail lights ground out.. anyone know? Would that cause it to pop a fuse every time?

The only other thing I could think that MAY be causing this.. would be the headlight switch on the steering column? Anyone know if these are known to go bad? Is it possible that this could cause it?

Are there any good tricks for finding out WHERE something is shorting out.. because I can only imagine what an absolute nightmare its going to be to try and trace all the lines back and look at them all individually.. damn this sucks.

Thanks.. i really gotta figure this out soon or im shit outta luck!


edit: forgot to mention.. the only 'exposed' wiring i have is the FOG light harness in the front. I pulled my rear bumper off recently and haven't re-hooked them back up. However.. i did cover them.. but maybe that could be causing it? Any clues here??



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 Post subject: Re: Tail light electrical problem.. fuse keeps popping! HELP!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:48 am 
SLi O.G.
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Here are the electrical diagrams for the back..

GB-9?? Anyone know the location of this ground? Is it possible that if this is not grounding out it could be causing this problem?

Image
Image


edit: Also just spoke with a tech @ the local subaru dealership.. and he says the 'rear defrost switch' and the tail lights run on the same wiring circuit or whatever? Hmm.. can anyone confirm this?



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. fuse keeps popping! NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:33 am 
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Here's an idea, pull the bulbs from the lights that keep blowing fuses - check INSIDE the socket to make sure there's no corrosion or wires loose.

JDMLegacy kept blowing brake light fuses whenever she hit the brake pedal, and it was as simple as swapping a bulb base holder out - her original was corroded and kept overloading.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. fuse keeps popping! NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:35 am 
SLi O.G.
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Alright.. going to try that. What causes them to short out.. just the corrosion? The bulbs are still good.. but it just keeps blowing the fuse.

Do you know if the rear tail running lights are on the same circuit as the rear defrost? I'm wondering if this might have to do something with my heated mirror install.. really hope not. They both WERE working for a while.. now my rear tail lights have stopped.. all the other lights work however. Hazards, turns, brake lights all seem to be working fine.

If it IS in fact the heated mirrors overloading the circuit.. and if they ARE on the same circuit as the rear tail running lights.. wouldn't this cause them to stop working too? Because they still seem to be working fine and heating the mirrors.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. fuse keeps popping! NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:43 am 
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I hate electricity...I had enough problems on my old BD when some monkey decided to remove the door switches prior to my purchase.

The corrosion causes the short. Rust is still a conductor, and an unreliable one!

I don't think the rear lights are on the same circuit as the defroster, because of how the defrost works. If the heated mirrors are on the rear light circuit, an easy way to tell is to turn the mirrors off, and see if the lights blow? Sometimes when circuits are wired up, some "sections" can take precedence over others depending on how they're wired. I'm no master electrician though.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. fuse keeps popping! NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:55 am 
SLi O.G.
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Yeah.. ugh. I hope this is simple.. or else it might be a job for the 'stealership' or something. I hate electrical bullshit. Everything WAS working fine.. and both bulbs are still good.. so I'm gonna go with the corrosion tip and start from there.

The next thing i guess i can do would be to pull the mirror switch and disable the mirrors.. then test to see if it blows.

if those 2 tricks don't work.. what else can i check? Would a bad ground cause this.. or only the POS (+) wires grounding out somewhere?

Also.. would another good test be to disconnect the tail lights completely from the harness and turn the car on / front lights on? Would this tell me that it could be just the sockets causing a short?

Thanks for the help.. any more tips / pointers / shit to check ideas would be great.

I'm wondering if this may have to do with the steering column switches as well.. or maybe even the front fog lights POS (+) wire grounding out by accident. Don't know why that would cause the tails to go out.. but I might as well check.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. fuse keeps popping! NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:27 am 
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I think you're on the right track... problem is even if you do all this troubleshooting, the dealership will still do the same process you use... you could go straight to an auto electrician though.

GL!



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. fuse keeps popping! NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:36 pm 
SLi O.G.
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Update:

Did some more poking around.. this is what i found in the order i found it in.

Pulled the defrost switch, turned the headlights off.

When the car was on with the headlights turned off.. the fuse would not pop. As soon as you turn the headlights on.. it would pop.

I then poked around at my wiring for the heated mirrors.. looked okay. Pulled the rear tail lights out, then tried putting a new fuse in the box.. and now its popping them right when i put them in. Not even with the headlights on / car on.

So yeah.. thats where I'm at. I checked all the wiring in the back beneath the trim panels in the trunk.. all the wiring going to the tail lights looks good. Checked the bulbs / sockets.. they look mint as well.

I really don't know where to go next.. this is bizarre. I checked all the fuses in the fuse box, and everything is good in BOTH the drivers kick panel box, and the engine bay box.

I did notice the positive terminal on the battery is pretty damn loose. Even when i tighten it all the way.. its loose. Not sure if this will do anything strange.

I need to now check the fog light wires and see where they are at.. and see if they are touching or anything (if this even matters)... i'll report back.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. fuse keeps popping! NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:38 pm 
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d1giPhux wrote:
When the car was on with the headlights turned off.. the fuse would not pop. As soon as you turn the headlights on.. it would pop.

I then poked around at my wiring for the heated mirrors.. looked okay. Pulled the rear tail lights out, then tried putting a new fuse in the box.. and now its popping them right when i put them in. Not even with the headlights on / car on.


I'm gussing some wire that you moved inbetween those two is the problem, are the headlights on the same fuse? If they are I'm guessing it was just a small problem, then when you turned the headlights on you were drawing extra amps and that is what triped the fuse, then when you were messing around you made it worse explaining the reason the headlights didn't matter anymore. It may not be right, but thats what I'm thinking.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. fuse keeps popping! NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:02 pm 
SLi O.G.
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okay.. so looks like the problem with the fuse popping and the rear tail lights has been solved!!!


The problem was my fog lights were shorting out coming from the car.. they were touching because i had them unplugged!

However.. now I'm wondering if I blew both of my fog light switches.. or if something else is acting up.. this is whats going on:


When the fog light button is off.. the fog lights still seem to come on (just the reflector side) only when the headlights are on of course.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. fuse keeps popping! SOLVED! HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:19 pm 
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So here is the fog problem currently. I don't know if this is because they shorted out.. and are now acting weird. Or if i blew a relay / switch / something else that is causing them to act weird.

Basically when the button is off.. the fog lights (reflector) still comes on when the headlights are on.
When the button is turned on, and the headlights are on.. the fogs work as they are supposed to.

Here is a more broken down meaning as to what im saying:

Headlights off | BTN off = No fogs

Parking lights on | BTN off = Fog ON (reflectors only)
Parking lights on | BTN on = Fog ON (reflectors only)

Low Beam on | BTN off = Fog ON (reflectors only)
Low Beam on | BTN on = Fog ON (reflectors & projector)

High Beam on | BTN off = Fog ON (reflectors only)
High Beam on | BTN on = Fog ON (reflectors only)


Also want to add that BOTH of my fog light buttons do the same thing. No difference. So they are either both blown.. or something else 'down the line' is causing the fog lights not to turn off unless the lights are off.

NEED HELP STILL!



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:43 am 
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Anyone?? No clue why my switch isnt working proper.. feels like i blew something else and its letting the power get through to the fogs constantly.. any clues??



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:29 am 
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I think you have to pull every plug out, and plug things in one at a time...

Maybe get a new switch for the fogs and see if that solves the problem.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:47 am 
SLi O.G.
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What do you mean pull every plug out one at a time.. which plugs? Why would this cause such a strange problem? This almost makes sense the way it was acting last night. Is there some order things should be put back in / plugged in?



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:28 am 
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I was thinking pull every headlight, tailight, fog light out, start the car and plug one light back in at a time...?



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:33 am 
SLi O.G.
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Why do you think that would help?

The problem right now seems to be that the button is just not turning them off.. don't know why its doing this.. I tried another button and it did the same thing. Could a relay possibly be causing this? Its like its passing power to the fogs no matter what.. so long as the lights are on.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:50 am 
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Unplug the switch side of the relay first and see if the fog lights stay off. If they do then you probably have a short on the switch side of the relay.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:04 pm 
SLi O.G.
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Where is the relay for the fogs anyways?

Nope.. the fogs stay on even when unplugged.. what could this mean? Sorry I'm not great with electrical shit.. so I will need all the help I can get possibly.

If the relay was blown.. what would it do? Would the lights come on at all?



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:19 pm 
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Unplug the power wire from the relay and see what happens. If the lights still come on then it sounds like some circuit in your headlights is shorting onto the power wire between the relay and the fog lights. Or something even more complicated like a complex short.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:35 pm 
SLi O.G.
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damn.. this is making my head spin.

the only thing that happened with the fog lights was that they shorted out on themselves. The wires coming from the car.. shorted on themselves.. or on the body of the car.. but more likely.. on themselves as they were touching.

where is the relay for the fogs located? so if i unplug the wires going to the relay.. and the fogs don't come on.. does that mean the relay is just blown?

did i mention.. i hate car electrical shit.. :smt019



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:41 pm 
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Which wire did you unplug? All of then? That eliminates the possibility that there's a short providing the fogs with power from a difference source than the relay. Now try plugging in just the power source and the fogs into the relay, leave the wires going to the switches out. If the fogs come on then the relay is stuck on and is bad.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:55 pm 
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Holy crap.. i am completely lost as to what you are saying here.

The wires I am talking about that I unplugged are the ones coming from the car.. going to the fogs. See.. i have the jdm fogs, which is 3 wires.. 2 POS (+) and one NEG (-). I have them wired to quick spade connectors so that when i pull the bumper off.. i can disconnect the fogs easy. I disconnected those.. and they shorted on eachother.

First off.. where is the fog relay located? What am i doing with the relay to be testing it?

When i plug in either of the POS (+) wires going to the fogs.. the fogs come on.. so long as the ground wire is plugged in.. i think. They may even come on if the ground wire is not plugged into the fog.. I'm not sure.

Try to break this down into idiot terms for me.. cause i'm lost.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:02 pm 
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If they come on even if the ground wire is not plugged in, then you have a short in the fog light itself.

The pos(+) wires that you plug into your fog lights should lead to the relay. I have never owned a Subaru with OEM fogs but I searched the FSM and got FB-36 for the location - I guess that stands for Fuse Box. So I'd start with the fuse boxes in the engine bay and the one by the kick panel on the driver's side. Things should be labeled once you get there.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:42 pm 
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How can i go about testing the relays themselves? Anyone know which one in which fuse box it is.. ? I'm gonna have a look in the light tomorrow.. but since I am now looking at the relays to see if they are working, how can i test to see if they are good? Thanks.



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 Post subject: Re: TAIL LIGHT problem.. SOLVED.. BUT NEED HELP STILL!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:57 am 
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i still need help figuring out why these fogs arent working correctly. Anyone know where the relay for the fogs is / which one it is?



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